Richard Oliver

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Posts by Richard Oliver

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  25

  If an elder decides he wants to report child molestation to police.

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can he be sued for violating clergy pertinent privilege by the person that confesses to him?.

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  Richard Oliver

  He could be sued for Clergy Malpractice. Also depending on how severe the violation is and if the court determines that the privilege prevents the use of that testimony, There is a possibility that any evidence that is derived from that report would be inadmissible. It is the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine. It is more a rule of civil procedure than a matter that can be brought by a private action.
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  37

  The Governing Body WILL be sued in America collectively and individually in the near future!

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so lloyd evans aka cedars says on his facebook page when he attended a reveal jw child abuse event.. .

  interesting stuff but no details!.

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  Richard Oliver

  Again name one case. I can name a whole string of cases that Watchtower won on summary judgment. And just as you say that Watchtower feared to lose the person who accepts the settlement may have feared to lose too. In the Conti case, in fact, it was a victory for watchtower. It showed that Watchtower did not have a duty to warn or a duty to protect.
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  37

  The Governing Body WILL be sued in America collectively and individually in the near future!

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so lloyd evans aka cedars says on his facebook page when he attended a reveal jw child abuse event.. .

  interesting stuff but no details!.

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  Richard Oliver

  Religious abstention policy would come in effect with cases such as shunning and blood issue. A Church cannot be held responsible for what has said if it is in the promotion of their truly held religious beliefs.
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  37

  The Governing Body WILL be sued in America collectively and individually in the near future!

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so lloyd evans aka cedars says on his facebook page when he attended a reveal jw child abuse event.. .

  interesting stuff but no details!.

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  Richard Oliver

  Other than the conti case please name a case where a jury found that Watchtower was liable for something and that it wasn't reversed on appeal.
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  31

  Circuit Overseer's Idiotic Comment

  by FedUpJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at last night's clam the circuit overseer made this comment, "we elders sometimes have to act as judges in the congregation.

  but we (the elders) are imperfect, and so cannot know everything about judicial matters.

  that is why we (the elders) have the biblical rule that there must be at least two witnesses to wrongdoing.

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  Richard Oliver

  And getting legal advice on Child abuse is just smart. Just take the State of Illionis for instance. The child abuse statute defines child abuse as:

  "Abused child" means a child whose parent or immediate family member, or any person responsible for the child's welfare, or any individual residing in the same home as the child, or a paramour of the child's parent:

  (c) commits or allows to be committed any sex offense

  against such child, as such sex offenses are defined in the Criminal Code of 2012 or in the Wrongs to Children Act, and extending those definitions of sex offenses to include children under 18 years of age; Please note that the definition of child abuse requires that the perpetrator is the parent, someone who lives in the home or is responsible for the welfare fo the child. In Doe1 v North Central Behavioral Health Systems the Appeals court ruled that because the perpetrator did not fall under one of those categories the children were not victims of child abuse but were victims of sexual assault. So the therapists were not required to report the matter because it was not child abuse.
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  31

  Circuit Overseer's Idiotic Comment

  by FedUpJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at last night's clam the circuit overseer made this comment, "we elders sometimes have to act as judges in the congregation.

  but we (the elders) are imperfect, and so cannot know everything about judicial matters.

  that is why we (the elders) have the biblical rule that there must be at least two witnesses to wrongdoing.

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  Richard Oliver

  Londo it was on the ARC Website. It was the document on the website Called WAT.0024.001.0001. Watchtower Document is called Protecting Minors from Abuse Dated August 1, 2016. The applicable parts is:

  5. Legal Considerations: In some jurisdictions, individuals who learn of an allegation of child abuse may be obligated by law to report the allegation to the secular authorities. In all cases, the victim and her parents have the absolute right to report an allegation to the authorities.—Gal. 6:5; ks10 chap. 12 par. 19.

  6. To ensure that elders comply with child-abuse reporting laws, two elders should immedi-ately call the Legal Department for legal advice when the elders learn of an accusation of child abuse. (Rom. 13:1-4) A call should be made even when both persons involved are minors. The elders should not ask an alleged victim, the accused person, or anyone else to call the Legal Department on the el-ders’ behalf. The elders should call the Legal Department even in the following situations:

  • The alleged abuse occurred many years ago.

  • The alleged abuse is based on the testimony of only one witness.

  • The alleged abuse is believed to be a repressed memory.

  • The alleged abuse involved perpetrators or victims who are deceased.

  • The alleged abuse is believed to have already been reported to the secular authorities.

  • The alleged perpetrator or victim is not a member of your congregation.

  • The alleged perpetrator is a non-Witness associating with the congregation.

  • The alleged abuse occurred before the alleged perpetrator or victim was baptized.

  • The alleged victim is now an adult.

  • The alleged abuse occurred in the past, and it is unclear whether your congregation elders ever called the Legal Department for direction.

  7. The Legal Department will provide legal advice based on the facts and the applicable law. If the individual who is accused of the child abuse is associated with your congregation, the two elders calling should provide the Legal Department with the individual’s date of birth and, if applicable, his date of baptism. After speaking with the Legal Department, the call will be trans-ferred to the Service Department so that the elders can receive further assistance.
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  31

  Circuit Overseer's Idiotic Comment

  by FedUpJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at last night's clam the circuit overseer made this comment, "we elders sometimes have to act as judges in the congregation.

  but we (the elders) are imperfect, and so cannot know everything about judicial matters.

  that is why we (the elders) have the biblical rule that there must be at least two witnesses to wrongdoing.

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  Richard Oliver

  In the latest policy letter. There is no longer the need for two witnesses in order for the abuse to be reported to secular authorities. The two witness rule only applies for sanctions that can be imposed by the congregation.
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  115

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  by aboveusonlysky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

  has such a thing been tried before?.

  https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

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  Richard Oliver

  In Guinn v Church of Christ the Oklahoma Supreme Court used Paul v Watchtower to show the difference between active punishment of a former member and passive punishment of a former member. In Guinn the parishioner had removed herself from the association of the church and then sued the church and the elders for the invasion of privacy and infliction of emotional distress. In Guinn the court said:

  In Paul a former member deliberately rejected the faith and beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church and was thus shunned. The Elders admonished the members of the church not to speak to Ms. Paul, and they obeyed. While Ms. Paul had withdrawn her membership and thus her consent to submit to the authority of the Jehovah's Witness Church, the act of discipline which it carried out against her was-unlike that in the instant case-a form of rejection and exclusion which did not call for her consent:

  “The members of the Church Paul decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her. We hold that they are free to make that choice.”57

  The Elders' postresignation conduct in Paul was passive. Their disassociation from Ms. Paul through shunning was merely a reiteration of her prior rejection, not an active attempt to involve her in the religious practices of a church whose precepts she no longer followed. The church's *781 decision to turn away from her was protected under the First Amendment as a passive exercise of religious freedom, the legitimacy of which was not grounded in her prior acquiescence.

  For purposes of First Amendment protection, religiously-motivated disciplinary measures that merely exclude a person from communion are vastly different from those which are designed to control and involve. A church clearly is constitutionally free to exclude people without first obtaining their consent. But the First Amendment will not shield a church from civil liability for imposing its will, as manifested through a disciplinary scheme, upon an individual who has not consented to undergo ecclesiastical discipline. The court in Paul stated that “[c]ourts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members ) ...,” and that “[c]hurches are afforded great latitude when they impose discipline on members or former members,”58[emphasis added] but it provided no support for this view. Regardless of our disagreement with the court's refusal in Paul to distinguish between “former” and “present” church members when assessing a church's freedom to visit religious discipline, it is apparent that the stated rationale did not form the basis of the court's holding. We believe that the conclusion reached in Paul and our holding today are entirely consistent and easily reconcilable.
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  15

  Double standard?

  by dogon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i see serena williams is pregnant, not married and is she still a jehovahs witness?

  if i have all this correct why is she not disfellowshipped?

  more jw bull shit?

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  Richard Oliver

  Anyone can claim that they are a part of any religion or other kinds of group.
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  37

  The Governing Body WILL be sued in America collectively and individually in the near future!

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so lloyd evans aka cedars says on his facebook page when he attended a reveal jw child abuse event.. .

  interesting stuff but no details!.

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  Richard Oliver

  Well most of the people who have sued have not been very successful. So it will be interesting to see.